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Flentrop sample set?


Are there no sample sets for Flentrop organs? How can this be? - Gary Chapman
by gary_chapman
Jul 29, 2019 05:41 PM

Replies (24)

RE: Flentrop sample set?

gary_chapman wrote:

Are there no sample sets for Flentrop organs? How can this be? - Gary Chapman

Just lucky, I guess... :-)

Peace!

by Agnus_Dei
Jul 29, 2019 07:17 PM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

gary_chapman wrote:

Are there no sample sets for Flentrop organs? How can this be? - Gary Chapman

You mean Fliptop or Fleetrap?

by Aida (Ida as in Idaho)
Jul 31, 2019 04:59 AM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

gary_chapman wrote:

Are there no sample sets for Flentrop organs? How can this be? - Gary Chapman

The Zwolle organ was restored by Flentrop in the 1950s and in many aspects sounds more like a Flentrop organ than like a Schnitger organ. But in real life this organ will never sound again like the sample set, for a few months ago the pipes have been removed and will not be replaced before the organ is restored again. This new restoration will also be done by Flentrop and much of the work from the 1950s will be undone to bring the sound closer to Schnitger again. However, this was also the aim in the 1950s, so it might very well be that in another few decades we will again conclude that it sounds more like Flentrop than like Schnitger.

by Gerrit
Jul 31, 2019 05:13 AM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

Gerrit wrote:

The Zwolle organ was restored by Flentrop in the 1950s and in many aspects sounds more like a Flentrop organ than like a Schnitger organ. But in real life this organ will never sound again like the sample set, for a few months ago the pipes have been removed and will not be replaced before the organ is restored again. This new restoration will also be done by Flentrop and much of the work from the 1950s will be undone to bring the sound closer to Schnitger again. However, this was also the aim in the 1950s, so it might very well be that in another few decades we will again conclude that it sounds more like Flentrop than like Schnitger.

Very well said, Gerrit! Lang leve Leeflang! (grapje)

by Aida (Ida as in Idaho)
Jul 31, 2019 05:16 AM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

Gerrit wrote:

The Zwolle organ was restored by Flentrop in the 1950s and in many aspects sounds more like a Flentrop organ than like a Schnitger organ. But in real life this organ will never sound again like the sample set, for a few months ago the pipes have been removed and will not be replaced before the organ is restored again. This new restoration will also be done by Flentrop and much of the work from the 1950s will be undone to bring the sound closer to Schnitger again. However, this was also the aim in the 1950s, so it might very well be that in another few decades we will again conclude that it sounds more like Flentrop than like Schnitger.

In my experience, they restored the organ in Harlingen extremely well (I played it two years ago), and the organ in the Catharinenkirche in Hamburg they built is a jewel. Their work of 1950s can in no way be compared to the work done today.

I also played the organ at Duke University, and it's very nice!

To use derogatory labels I feel is misplaced. Many other firms working in the 1950s restoring old organs made similar mistakes as Flentrop, so you cannot single out this firm. There was still gross lack of knowledge those days.

Jurgen Ahrend restored the Martinikerk organ in Groningen; they say it's more of an Ahrend organ, but I digress. Yes, he put his stamp on it; but could it have bene otherwise during such an extensive reconstruction effort? I don't think so. The results there are fabulous, and I have no doubt that Zwolle will also sound one heck of a lot better after the planned work ahead! We have come a very long and wonderful way since the 1950s!

The fact that Hamburg chose Flentrop and not Reil, Ahrend Jr. or Rowan West speaks volumes.

My 3 cents.

by adri
Aug 5, 2019 02:33 PM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

adri wrote:

In my experience, they restored the organ in Harlingen extremely well (I played it two years ago), and the organ in the Catharinenkirche in Hamburg they built is a jewel. Their work of 1950s can in no way be compared to the work done today.

I also played the organ at Duke University, and it's very nice!

To use derogatory labels I feel is misplaced. Many other firms working in the 1950s restoring old organs made similar mistakes as Flentrop, so you cannot single out this firm. There was still gross lack of knowledge those days.

Jurgen Ahrend restored the Martinikerk organ in Groningen; they say it's more of an Ahrend organ, but I digress. Yes, he put his stamp on it; but could it have bene otherwise during such an extensive reconstruction effort? I don't think so. The results there are fabulous, and I have no doubt that Zwolle will also sound one heck of a lot better after the planned work ahead! We have come a very long and wonderful way since the 1950s!

The fact that Hamburg chose Flentrop and not Reil, Ahrend Jr. or Rowan West speaks volumes.

My 3 cents.

Basically, I agree with you, Adri. It's just that each time has it's own ideas about how historical organs should be restored and we will never get the originals back. Of course, the new restoration will be better than the previous one. But it won't be a real Schnitger and in another 50 years we will again have other ideas about how a Schnitger should sound. And at the same time, the Zwolle organ as it is now is still a fantastic organ in it's own way, which we will lose now, and that makes me sad a bit. Yes, we will win a lot with this restoration, which I look forward to, but yes, we will also lose something which has it's own historical value. But at least, we will always have the sample set!

Anyway, my remarks were not meant to be derogatory or to single out Flentrop.

by Gerrit
Aug 5, 2019 02:49 PM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

Gerrit wrote:

Basically, I agree with you, Adri. It's just that each time has it's own ideas about how historical organs should be restored and we will never get the originals back. Of course, the new restoration will be better than the previous one. But it won't be a real Schnitger and in another 50 years we will again have other ideas about how a Schnitger should sound. And at the same time, the Zwolle organ as it is now is still a fantastic organ in it's own way, which we will lose now, and that makes me sad a bit. Yes, we will win a lot with this restoration, which I look forward to, but yes, we will also lose something which has it's own historical value. But at least, we will always have the sample set!

Anyway, my remarks were not meant to be derogatory or to single out Flentrop.

No problem, Gerrit. You like this organ as is, and I don't, as I can really hear that neo- baroque element.
And yes, you're right about the impossibility to exactly preserve originality. That's true even for organs that are totally original.

Your remarks were fine, it was Aida who was being creative, or perhaps a bad typist? I like Aida, and so no problem here either. They call Flentrop Fleytrap in America, because their organs there generally do not meet American expectations much.

by adri
Aug 5, 2019 03:18 PM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

adri wrote:

No problem, Gerrit. You like this organ as is, and I don't, as I can really hear that neo- baroque element.
And yes, you're right about the impossibility to exactly preserve originality. That's true even for organs that are totally original.

Your remarks were fine, it was Aida who was being creative, or perhaps a bad typist? I like Aida, and so no problem here either. They call Flentrop Fleytrap in America, because their organs there generally do not meet American expectations much.

Well, I'm not getting involved in this, but I will say that there reason that many American organists are NOT Flentrop fans is because they have built instruments that virtually completely useless in the settings in which they were placed.

Now, in many cases, probably all, that was the result of an organist who wanted a "mean-tone screamer," and got what they wanted, leaving the church, and any future organists left holding the bag.

Some places just suffer with the results that they have, while others, with enough financial means, have removed the Flentrop, and put an "appropriate" instrument in its place.

I know of a church with a large and solid Anglican tradition that was convinced by its "young and brilliant genius" that the old "tub" they had should go, and they should replace with a "gem" like a big, UNEQUAL TEMP, Flentrop. So, they did...

The organist was gone within a year, the choir fell apart, and now, the current organist can accompany Howells on the "Werkprinzip" and solo out the tuba parts in Stanford on the "Holtztrommet".

THAT'S the reason many American organists feel as we do.

Peace to All!

by Agnus_Dei
Aug 7, 2019 02:27 PM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

adri wrote:

No problem, Gerrit. You like this organ as is, and I don't, as I can really hear that neo- baroque element.
And yes, you're right about the impossibility to exactly preserve originality. That's true even for organs that are totally original.

Your remarks were fine, it was Aida who was being creative, or perhaps a bad typist? I like Aida, and so no problem here either. They call Flentrop Fleytrap in America, because their organs there generally do not meet American expectations much.

dpmx677d I like you too, Adri! :-)

Thanks for defending my terrible typos. No problem for me there either.

Piece to you too, Angus_David!

by Aida (Ida as in Idaho)
Aug 7, 2019 02:42 PM

RE: Flentrop sample set?

dpmx677d?? I don't make typos that bad!
by Aida (Ida as in Idaho)
Aug 7, 2019 02:44 PM

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